WIU vs South Dakota (9/30/17) - HOMECOMING!!!

Pack1 (backsackdad)
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:30 pm

ST_Lawson wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:28 pm
rocki wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:40 am Just a question, Scott. Do you think these students have also not been attending the football games at the high school they went to (while they were there, I mean)? If not, then there just doesn't appear to be interest in football at all. If they did, what made them want to go to those games and not the ones at the college they are now attending? I'm honestly just curious what other people think - is it too many electronics available to play with, or is it not feeling connected with the school/sport itself? I don't have a clue, myself. I go to every game I can, and I'm far beyond my college days, lol!!
Well, I think it's a combination of things (and it's different based on which "group" you're talking about):
I don't think that attendance is down at high schools (at least not much), so it's doesn't seem like just a general lack of football interest.

So, there's always the "hardcore" group of fans...people who will always go to the games. But, you go from a student population of ~15k to ~7.5k. Maybe before you had ~2,000 in your "hardcore" group...well, now you have ~1,000.

Next you have the people who are interested in football, but because they grew up being able to watch nearly any team from any part of the country live on TV/Computer...so they're Notre Dame fans, UCLA fans, Michigan fans, and Clemson fans, etc. If they can watch "their" team from the comfort of their dorm room, they're not going to be likely to head out to Hanson Field to watch Western play. When people say the internet has made the world smaller, this is what they mean. How easy would it have been for someone in the '70s to be a huge fan of...say University of Oregon football? How many games would a kid from the Chicago suburbs going to school in Macomb get to watch at home or at school if they wanted to watch the Oregon Ducks? I'm going to guess not many. How many Oregon games would a kid born in the same situation, but 40 years later, get to watch?...pretty much all of them. Many would be on ESPN, some would be on FS1, some on the Pac12 network, and even if they didn't get/subscribe to all of those...like it or not, they're all streaming for free (illegally) on the internet.

Then you have the people who would go to a game if they have nothing better to do. Well, now they can watch any show or movie they want to, play any game they want to, talk to their HS friends at other schools through social media, or do anything else they want to online. What % of these much more casual fans would go to a game if they have these other options? I don't know the answer, but I'm betting it's a lot fewer than the number who went back then.

There's another point that might be a thing, but I don't really know for sure. Have there always been huge schools in the Chicago area and suburbs, or were the schools smaller and were there more of them? I don't know the answer to this, but I know of people that I went to school with that had graduating classes of 1500 kids. That's a HS of like 6,000 people. You could easily have a decent number of students, plus local fans, alumni, parents, etc. who had regularly gone to HS games that have higher attendance, more community interest, and in a larger stadium than Western has.

It just seems like kids treat school as more of a place to just get in, get their degree, and get out...it's not something to have "spirit" for anymore. A few years removed and it's not really any different than spending 4 years working at fast food place...you spend most of you day there, you learn some stuff, you go do the next thing, and you don't really have much of a reason to go back. Kinda like you said...they just don't feel connected to the school in the same way that students did back then.

I'm not saying I have all the right answers. I'm pretty well removed from the current students myself (I'm now to the point where it's entirely possible for me to be the same age as some of their parents). This is just how it looks from my perspective and from what I've read in articles talking about the situation.
I'M not so sure I agree. I think it has more to do with recent success. The HS my kids go to has about a 13000 seating capacity and its standing room for good games.
Pack1 (backsackdad)
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Pack1 (backsackdad) wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:35 pm
ST_Lawson wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:28 pm
rocki wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:40 am Just a question, Scott. Do you think these students have also not been attending the football games at the high school they went to (while they were there, I mean)? If not, then there just doesn't appear to be interest in football at all. If they did, what made them want to go to those games and not the ones at the college they are now attending? I'm honestly just curious what other people think - is it too many electronics available to play with, or is it not feeling connected with the school/sport itself? I don't have a clue, myself. I go to every game I can, and I'm far beyond my college days, lol!!
Well, I think it's a combination of things (and it's different based on which "group" you're talking about):
I don't think that attendance is down at high schools (at least not much), so it's doesn't seem like just a general lack of football interest.

So, there's always the "hardcore" group of fans...people who will always go to the games. But, you go from a student population of ~15k to ~7.5k. Maybe before you had ~2,000 in your "hardcore" group...well, now you have ~1,000.

Next you have the people who are interested in football, but because they grew up being able to watch nearly any team from any part of the country live on TV/Computer...so they're Notre Dame fans, UCLA fans, Michigan fans, and Clemson fans, etc. If they can watch "their" team from the comfort of their dorm room, they're not going to be likely to head out to Hanson Field to watch Western play. When people say the internet has made the world smaller, this is what they mean. How easy would it have been for someone in the '70s to be a huge fan of...say University of Oregon football? How many games would a kid from the Chicago suburbs going to school in Macomb get to watch at home or at school if they wanted to watch the Oregon Ducks? I'm going to guess not many. How many Oregon games would a kid born in the same situation, but 40 years later, get to watch?...pretty much all of them. Many would be on ESPN, some would be on FS1, some on the Pac12 network, and even if they didn't get/subscribe to all of those...like it or not, they're all streaming for free (illegally) on the internet.

Then you have the people who would go to a game if they have nothing better to do. Well, now they can watch any show or movie they want to, play any game they want to, talk to their HS friends at other schools through social media, or do anything else they want to online. What % of these much more casual fans would go to a game if they have these other options? I don't know the answer, but I'm betting it's a lot fewer than the number who went back then.

There's another point that might be a thing, but I don't really know for sure. Have there always been huge schools in the Chicago area and suburbs, or were the schools smaller and were there more of them? I don't know the answer to this, but I know of people that I went to school with that had graduating classes of 1500 kids. That's a HS of like 6,000 people. You could easily have a decent number of students, plus local fans, alumni, parents, etc. who had regularly gone to HS games that have higher attendance, more community interest, and in a larger stadium than Western has.

It just seems like kids treat school as more of a place to just get in, get their degree, and get out...it's not something to have "spirit" for anymore. A few years removed and it's not really any different than spending 4 years working at fast food place...you spend most of you day there, you learn some stuff, you go do the next thing, and you don't really have much of a reason to go back. Kinda like you said...they just don't feel connected to the school in the same way that students did back then.

I'm not saying I have all the right answers. I'm pretty well removed from the current students myself (I'm now to the point where it's entirely possible for me to be the same age as some of their parents). This is just how it looks from my perspective and from what I've read in articles talking about the situation.
I'M not so sure I agree. I think it has more to do with recent success. The HS my kids go to has about a 13000 seating capacity and its standing room for good games.
Forgot to mention that it also has 7 private boxes that lease for 75k for 3 years and they're also all taken... and yes... it's a public school to boot!!
rocki
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:08 pm

Pack1 (backsackdad) wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:39 pm
Pack1 (backsackdad) wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:35 pm
ST_Lawson wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:28 pm

Well, I think it's a combination of things (and it's different based on which "group" you're talking about):
I don't think that attendance is down at high schools (at least not much), so it's doesn't seem like just a general lack of football interest.

So, there's always the "hardcore" group of fans...people who will always go to the games. But, you go from a student population of ~15k to ~7.5k. Maybe before you had ~2,000 in your "hardcore" group...well, now you have ~1,000.

Next you have the people who are interested in football, but because they grew up being able to watch nearly any team from any part of the country live on TV/Computer...so they're Notre Dame fans, UCLA fans, Michigan fans, and Clemson fans, etc. If they can watch "their" team from the comfort of their dorm room, they're not going to be likely to head out to Hanson Field to watch Western play. When people say the internet has made the world smaller, this is what they mean. How easy would it have been for someone in the '70s to be a huge fan of...say University of Oregon football? How many games would a kid from the Chicago suburbs going to school in Macomb get to watch at home or at school if they wanted to watch the Oregon Ducks? I'm going to guess not many. How many Oregon games would a kid born in the same situation, but 40 years later, get to watch?...pretty much all of them. Many would be on ESPN, some would be on FS1, some on the Pac12 network, and even if they didn't get/subscribe to all of those...like it or not, they're all streaming for free (illegally) on the internet.

Then you have the people who would go to a game if they have nothing better to do. Well, now they can watch any show or movie they want to, play any game they want to, talk to their HS friends at other schools through social media, or do anything else they want to online. What % of these much more casual fans would go to a game if they have these other options? I don't know the answer, but I'm betting it's a lot fewer than the number who went back then.

There's another point that might be a thing, but I don't really know for sure. Have there always been huge schools in the Chicago area and suburbs, or were the schools smaller and were there more of them? I don't know the answer to this, but I know of people that I went to school with that had graduating classes of 1500 kids. That's a HS of like 6,000 people. You could easily have a decent number of students, plus local fans, alumni, parents, etc. who had regularly gone to HS games that have higher attendance, more community interest, and in a larger stadium than Western has.

It just seems like kids treat school as more of a place to just get in, get their degree, and get out...it's not something to have "spirit" for anymore. A few years removed and it's not really any different than spending 4 years working at fast food place...you spend most of you day there, you learn some stuff, you go do the next thing, and you don't really have much of a reason to go back. Kinda like you said...they just don't feel connected to the school in the same way that students did back then.

I'm not saying I have all the right answers. I'm pretty well removed from the current students myself (I'm now to the point where it's entirely possible for me to be the same age as some of their parents). This is just how it looks from my perspective and from what I've read in articles talking about the situation.
I'M not so sure I agree. I think it has more to do with recent success. The HS my kids go to has about a 13000 seating capacity and its standing room for good games.
Forgot to mention that it also has 7 private boxes that lease for 75k for 3 years and they're also all taken... and yes... it's a public school to boot!!
I'm sure success helps, but there are also kids who come from schools that don't have that great a win-loss record yet they are at every high school football game. Somewhere a disconnect comes in (and I know it's not just Western, I've seen the same type of complaints/questions on multiple college message boards) and the kids aren't vested in the team anymore. Who knows? I guess nostalgia kind of comes with football season - I wish kids could enjoy it as much as most of us did back in the day. College football is the best.
wiu712
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On the Sidelines: WIU opens home slate with Valley showdown.

From tonight's WGEM Sports:
http://www.wgem.com/story/36480730/2017 ... y-showdown
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ST_Lawson
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Pack1 (backsackdad) wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:35 pm I'M not so sure I agree. I think it has more to do with recent success. The HS my kids go to has about a 13000 seating capacity and its standing room for good games.
That's kinda what I'm saying though. High schools are doing fine for the most part. The issue is that when kids move on to college, a lot of them never make that connection that they had in HS. I don't know if that's because of social media and instant connection/communication, or what. I mean, yes, you physically go off to college, but back in the day, pre-personal computers and cell phones, if you wanted to talk to someone that you were friends with in HS, you'd have to actually call them, it'd probably be long distance, and if you did it much it wouldn't be cheap. Now, if you want to talk to someone you were friends with in HS, you grab your smart phone, type up a few words, throw in an emoji or two and hit send and you're having a conversation.

In the past, there was a "disconnect" between you and your friends back home or friends who went to other universities. You'd go off to college and you'd have to make new friends because you didn't really have any other choice. Now, if you wanted to, you could talk all day every day with the same friends from HS and never have to branch out and make many college friends. My guess is that it's that continued social connection with HS friends that has contributed to students not actively engaging in social events all over campus, whether that's football games, the greek system, clubs, etc.

I've met students who are like this. They don't do anything social at college. They go home nearly every weekend, text with their friends back home or at other universities all the time, and never get involved with any activities or organizations on campus and never really make any friends here. I'd imagine that in the past, those types of students were pretty few and far between, but now, a much larger number of students can be physically "antisocial" but still be in communication with friends...just not people at school.

As I said, high schools are doing fine, because those are the kids that they grew up with, the ones they've been friends with since grade school or for years. Those are the people dragging the other people to games, getting them involved in stuff, going to see their friends compete in sports. And when they go off to college...it's just a place to get a degree and get out...no need to make any friends...no need to get involved in anything...no need to go see any athletic events because you don't know anyone on any of the teams anyway.
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wiu712
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:05 pm

Homecoming Day Forecast:

Saturday morning will start out at 42.

Will be sunny with an afternoon high of 72.

Humidity = 54%.

UV Index: 5 of 10.

Winds: East at 5-10 mph.
rocki
Posts: 1510
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:08 pm

wiu712 wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:13 am Homecoming Day Forecast:

Saturday morning will start out at 42.

Will be sunny with an afternoon high of 72.

Humidity = 54%.

UV Index: 5 of 10.

Winds: East at 5-10 mph.
Going to be a beautiful day for football - GO 'NECKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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leatherface
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:42 pm

Something else that might lead to lack of student interest, is how common it is for students to live off campus instead of spending time together in a residential type setting for more than one year or so. A lot of students want that apartment instead of the small dorm room and communal everything.That's what they have been used to at home- personal space etc. The more isoltaed from campus, the more inward folks might go.

I don't know about Western necessarily, but, on a lot of campuses the athletes have become very isolated from the rest of the student body. If you have no contact with them and know few if any, what's the connection there? Unfortunately, the days of athletics being the draw has changed. Students have found other interests to spend their time. Also, the time honored idea that athletes were "special" has changed. At one school I worked at, the coach was always telling his athletes how much the rest of the school admired them and looked up to them, when one of the captains said-" no, coach, thats not how a lot of students see things anymore". Some students become so involved in fraternities or soroities that becomes their main social group. All sorts of things are now available to attract attention by students.

Heh, students need a connection, and thats getting harder and harder to develop. IMHO
wiu712
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Nielson and Fisher prepare for Homecoming.

From today's Western Courier:
https://westerncourier.com/38883/sports ... omecoming/
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yokedneck
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Hey Leatherneck fans. I've been remiss with my posting this year. Congrats on the 3-0 start. My son, the former 'neck, is a grad assistant at Pitt State (D2 in Kansas) now. We still love to follow WIU and wish them nothing but success. Andrew keeps in touch with the coaches and a bunch of the players. The o line is jacked for this weekend.

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