This could be a multi faceted topic. Obviously had we played a MAC schedule as opposed to our in conference MVFC bretheren we would have had an easier go of it.
My question is this. Do we strive to be NIU and play Marshall on a Tuesday night in the Legendary Boca Raton Bowl? or do we strive to be NDSU or ISU playing for a National Championship? Hey at least we are in the undisputed best/toughest league in our Subdivision.
If we were in the OVC we would have made the playoffs this year. However, you don't hear Kentucky or Vanderbilt clamoring to get into the Sunbelt so as to win more games. At least they can say they compete in the best league in their subdivision
MAC vs. MVFC
Likely, yes, if this year's team played in the MAC, we would have probably done a little better. In fact, based on the Sagarin rankings by conference (who breaks out conference divisions as separate listings in the ranking...so, for example, SEC West is #1, but SEC East is #3), the MVFC is better than both Conference USA divisions, both MAC divisions, the Mountain West Conference - West Division, the AAC, and the Sun Belt.
That being said, we don't have the attendance, support, and most importantly...$, to be considered to be "on par" with nearly any FBS team at this point. There was a good discussion over on AnyGivenSaturday.com talking about North Dakota State and if they really are an FBS team masquerading as an FCS, where one of the UNI guys put together a review of the G5 (what used to be the non-BCS FBS conferences...AAC, CUSA, MAC, MWC, SB): http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthr ... BS-compare
The Sun Belt, for example, has an average stadium capacity of 27k, average student enrollment of 19k, and average athletics budget of $20M.
Western, for comparison, has a stadium capacity of 17k, roughly 12k students, and an athletics budget of $12.6M. The closest Sun Belt team that we are to size is Idaho, who has about the same size stadium (dome) and same amount of students, but spends ~$7.5M more than we do on athletics and, despite their lack of success on the football field, enjoys fairly good financial support from alumni considering a school of their size.
Another thing people were talking about in the thread (and in similar threads) was that maybe NDSU could find a way to get more $ for athletics, build a larger stadium, and go FBS (if they had an invite from a conference), but would they really be able to support it long-term? Another argument was that currently, the Fargodome can only hold so many people (19k), and they sell out nearly every game. This means that Bison football tickets are a hot commodity, and are in demand...which actually drives higher attendance. Some of the NDSU people were saying that if they were to have a larger stadium...say 25k-30k, they could probably get 22k-24k at each game, but the fact that people could pretty much always get seats would actually decrease interest from some groups and eventually lower attendance overall.
The general consensus for them, and I think it applies to us as well is that if we completely "max out" our student interest, financial support, and alumni involvement, we're still below the bottom rung of FBS teams. Personally, I'd much rather aim to be at the top of the FCS (we've been #2 before, we can do it again), win occasional games against FBS teams when we can get them, sell out (or nearly sell out) our 17k seat stadium, and be a perennial FCS playoff team.
In terms of TV exposure, the NDSU/Coastal Carolina game got 1.447 million viewers, which is actually on-par with many of the lower bowls...Heart of Dallas, Beef 'O' Brady's, GoDaddy, etc. (from last year). If we make it deep into the playoffs, get games on ESPN2 or possibly even ESPN (depending on opponent and game time), then we'd be having just as many eyeballs watching Leatherneck Football as watched the Camellia Bowl, Bahamas Bowl, or Boca Raton Bowl.
That being said, we don't have the attendance, support, and most importantly...$, to be considered to be "on par" with nearly any FBS team at this point. There was a good discussion over on AnyGivenSaturday.com talking about North Dakota State and if they really are an FBS team masquerading as an FCS, where one of the UNI guys put together a review of the G5 (what used to be the non-BCS FBS conferences...AAC, CUSA, MAC, MWC, SB): http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthr ... BS-compare
The Sun Belt, for example, has an average stadium capacity of 27k, average student enrollment of 19k, and average athletics budget of $20M.
Western, for comparison, has a stadium capacity of 17k, roughly 12k students, and an athletics budget of $12.6M. The closest Sun Belt team that we are to size is Idaho, who has about the same size stadium (dome) and same amount of students, but spends ~$7.5M more than we do on athletics and, despite their lack of success on the football field, enjoys fairly good financial support from alumni considering a school of their size.
Another thing people were talking about in the thread (and in similar threads) was that maybe NDSU could find a way to get more $ for athletics, build a larger stadium, and go FBS (if they had an invite from a conference), but would they really be able to support it long-term? Another argument was that currently, the Fargodome can only hold so many people (19k), and they sell out nearly every game. This means that Bison football tickets are a hot commodity, and are in demand...which actually drives higher attendance. Some of the NDSU people were saying that if they were to have a larger stadium...say 25k-30k, they could probably get 22k-24k at each game, but the fact that people could pretty much always get seats would actually decrease interest from some groups and eventually lower attendance overall.
The general consensus for them, and I think it applies to us as well is that if we completely "max out" our student interest, financial support, and alumni involvement, we're still below the bottom rung of FBS teams. Personally, I'd much rather aim to be at the top of the FCS (we've been #2 before, we can do it again), win occasional games against FBS teams when we can get them, sell out (or nearly sell out) our 17k seat stadium, and be a perennial FCS playoff team.
In terms of TV exposure, the NDSU/Coastal Carolina game got 1.447 million viewers, which is actually on-par with many of the lower bowls...Heart of Dallas, Beef 'O' Brady's, GoDaddy, etc. (from last year). If we make it deep into the playoffs, get games on ESPN2 or possibly even ESPN (depending on opponent and game time), then we'd be having just as many eyeballs watching Leatherneck Football as watched the Camellia Bowl, Bahamas Bowl, or Boca Raton Bowl.
Scott Lawson - Board Admin
Western Illinois University Alum/Fan/Employee
Member of the Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
Western Illinois University Alum/Fan/Employee
Member of the Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
- Western_101
- Posts: 1197
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:09 pm
- Location: Morton, IL
Good analysis Scott.
I like where Western is. I like the playoff format. I don't find much allure in playing in an empty stadium for some lame Bahamas Bowl.http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/central ... ty-stadium
Do you think the average Joe thinks that Western Kentucky vs. Central Michigan is somehow a more marquee match up than say a Western Illinois vs. Villanova?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamas_Bowl
So these two FBS teams reward is to play in an empty 15K seat stadium?
I like where Western is. I like the playoff format. I don't find much allure in playing in an empty stadium for some lame Bahamas Bowl.http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/central ... ty-stadium
Do you think the average Joe thinks that Western Kentucky vs. Central Michigan is somehow a more marquee match up than say a Western Illinois vs. Villanova?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamas_Bowl
So these two FBS teams reward is to play in an empty 15K seat stadium?
- sealhall74
- Posts: 5779
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:18 pm
- Location: Wherever, Windblows
We are in the best place we can be. ESPN doing there best right now to not show all of the empty seats in the Hawaii Bowl with lots of closeup player shots. That turnout is downright ugly.
Embrace the pace of the race.
Hehe...yea. You gotta imagine that the person directing that broadcast probably wishes they were doing a NDSU playoff game. Rabid Bison fans everywhere you look...packed stadium...sideline decibel meter hitting 3-digits. Lots more opportunities for quality shots than a nearly-empty stadium...even if it is in a nice place.sealhall74 wrote:We are in the best place we can be. ESPN doing there best right now to not show all of the empty seats in the Hawaii Bowl with lots of closeup player shots. That turnout is downright ugly.
Scott Lawson - Board Admin
Western Illinois University Alum/Fan/Employee
Member of the Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
Western Illinois University Alum/Fan/Employee
Member of the Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
-
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:09 pm
Mvfc is better than the MAC.
NDSU beat MAC champ CMU 44-10 in 2008 and not 1 MAC has called to play them absolutely scared to. I'd love to see the whole conference move up but will be hard to do with attendances
NDSU beat MAC champ CMU 44-10 in 2008 and not 1 MAC has called to play them absolutely scared to. I'd love to see the whole conference move up but will be hard to do with attendances