Leatherneck Nation

This seems like a pointless argument we have moved to OVC for better or worse. Now we need to win games, have successful postseason play (I am fine with them playing in NIT even) and vastly upgrade our facilities. Then maybe in a decade we move to more competitive conference, but we consistently have the worst facilities in our conferences which makes it hard to get the new generation of players and coachs to come and stay at a place that hasn't made a large investment into its sports in multiple decades. 

For now let's just celebrate the current success and hope for a strong finish to season. 
 

Summit and OVC are both one bid leagues currently and will be. Continued success is the key to improving program prestige. Just getting eyeballs in the tourney is huge. Win or lose. Remember what it did for Oakland when they got in with like six wins when they were still in the summit? OVC has had programs have success in the tournament, improve, and jump to bigger conferences.  I’m not saying this will happen for WIU but it’s a much better fit for the opportunity.  It was pretty clear We were the outcast of the summit.   As I’ve stated before. I just want to see WIU dancing. 

Considering the men's team has never made the big dance, I don't personally care what seed we would get or how good our odds are at winning. The fact of simply winning our Conference and getting into the tournament will do wonders for the program as far as national exposure, recircuiting, money for the basketball program, more fans in the stands the following season, and just overall school and community excitement and pride if they can make it in. 

leathernecks1 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:32 am You are correct. Yes let's not talk about 1998 when Kansa won by 50+ or the average of nearly 30 point blowouts for the rest of the games. Play in a better conference so you have a chance to make a run in the NCAA tournament like several sweet 16 teams did in the Summit. The 12 seed seems to be a sweet spot as you get a 5 seed to start and then the winner of 4 vs 13. Very possible to make sweet 16 with a 12 seed. 

 

Get to the big dance a few times, improve things...then we can talk about a better conference. Currently, based on Massey Ratings, we are #2 in the OVC and would be #5 in the Summit League behind SDSU, ORU, St. Thomas...just slightly behind Denver and barely ahead of NDSU. If we're looking at our chances of making the NCAA tournament, #2 in the OVC gives us a MUCH better chance than #5 in the SL. I think 40 years of history has already shown that barring some miracle season on our part plus a collapse of the top couple of teams, we're never going to make the tournament in the SL.

As for the hypothesis that the SL will get higher seeds than the OVC...that's historically incorrect. I looked at all OVC and SL participants in the NCAA tournament back to 2010.
The average seed for OVC teams was 12.7; for the SL it was 13.6. OVC teams won 5 non-First Four games in that span. SL teams won 3.
If I cut it down to only the last decade (2013-2023 tournaments), which drops Murray State's #6 seed in 2012, you still have the OVC with an average of 13.3 and the SL with 13.6.

Only once in the last 30 years has either conference had two teams in the tournament, and it was the OVC in 2019 with #11 Belmont and #12 Murray State.
I cut off at 30 years becuase both conferences had instances of it prior to 1992, but the teams were all different at that point anyway. Mid-Con had Green Bay and Northern Illinois in 1991, and UNI and Missouri State in 1990, while the OVC had Austin Peay and Middle Tennessee State in 1987.

As near as I can tell, the only advantage that the SL has over the OVC in historical success/appearances in the NCAA tournament is in Sweet 16 appearances, where the SL has 1 in recent history (ORU in 2021), and with the OVC you have to go back quite a ways. Also, ORU made that Sweet 16 run as a 15 seed.

The teams who have made the tournament out of the SL is much more limited than the OVC. In the Summit, in the last 10 years, it's been SDSU, NDSU, and ORU. In the OVC in the same span, SEMO, Murray State, Moreahead State, Belmont, Jacksonville State, Austin Peay, Eastern Kentucky.

Anyway, my point is, if you want #12 seeds (your "sweet spot")...you're more likely to get it in the OVC than you are in the SL.

Summit is about to be dominated by the tommies anyways. That’s my belief. They will move to greener pastures sooner rather than later. Wouldn’t be surprised if ORU left again either. 

Doing a quick review of the post season tournament play last year it appears the following teams from OVC actually got to play in a tournament which is good for exposure since these are typically broadcast via ESPN or other network instead of only via streaming which is good for the program & school. I may of missed someone, but just scrolled through the 3 main tournaments brackets from last year. 


- SEMO - NCAA Tourney
- Morehead State - NIT (Automatic bid given to OVC regular season winner if they don't make NCAA via OVC championship.) 
- Southern Indiana - CBI 

With tournament in Sioux Falls, its an uphill battle for any non-Dakota team.  It will be interesting to see what the OVC tournament is like.  Will the teams be fairly equally represented with fans in attendance?  I hope that is the case.  That would be a lot like what I witnessed for several years when the CAA went to Richmond for their tournament.  Nothing worse in life than showing up rooting for your team at the conference tournament and and its you, the cheerleaders, and the pep band.  Take my word for it.  

sealhall74 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:31 am With tournament in Sioux Falls, its an uphill battle for any non-Dakota team.  It will be interesting to see what the OVC tournament is like.  Will the teams be fairly equally represented with fans in attendance?  I hope that is the case.  That would be a lot like what I witnessed for several years when the CAA went to Richmond for their tournament.  Nothing worse in life than showing up rooting for your team at the conference tournament and and its you, the cheerleaders, and the pep band.  Take my word for it.  

 

Evansville is about 2 hours closer to Macomb than Sioux Falls is, so hopefully a few more people can make it. Also about 3 hours closer for people in the Chicago area. It's still essentially a "home game" for one of the teams (USI is just outside of Evansville, about 6 miles from the Ford Center), but I still feel like going against USI in downtown Evansville is going to be a bit easier than going up against SDSU in Sioux Falls.

Talking about the drought for the men's team not getting into the NCAA tournament, how many good teams did we have but got eliminated by Valpo in the Mid-Con tourney. One or two of those Kerwin teams probalby woul dhave made the tournament if it wasn't for Valpo.

meganeck wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:08 am Talking about the drought for the men's team not getting into the NCAA tournament, how many good teams did we have but got eliminated by Valpo in the Mid-Con tourney. One or two of those Kerwin teams probalby woul dhave made the tournament if it wasn't for Valpo.

 

Oh, for sure I think we would have made the tournament at least once in that timeframe if it weren't for Valpo.
1995 - finished regular season #2 in the conference, lost in the championship game in 3 OTs to #1 Valpo
1996 - finished regular season #2 in the conference, lost in the championship game to #1 Valpo
1997 - finished regular season tied for #2 in the conference, lost in the championship game to #1 Valpo
1999 - finished regular season #3 in the conference, lost in the semifinals round to #2 Valpo (Valpo would beat #1 Oral Roberts in the championship game).
In '95, we must not have had an automatic bid, because nobody from the Mid-Con played in the postseason that year, but from '96 to '00, Valpo was the Mid-Con representative in the NCAA tournament every year (and then again in '02 and '04).

So, if Valpo was not in the conference, or if they were replaced with a team not quite as good, I'm sure we would have made the tournament at least once, probably a couple of times. If that had happened...who knows...maybe we would have ended up in the MVC like Valpo is now.