Tennis

wiu712
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brewer2125 wrote:Cut football instead and you WILL see some real, positive impact to the athletic program's bottom line, and at the same time will likely give some real help to many other programs that don't get the same REAL resources as football.
Perhaps instead of cutting any sports, we should consider dropping down to a lower level instead.

Western was NAIA when we played for the basketball national championship in Kansas City back in the 1950's.

And weren't we NAIA during the days of legendary football coach Ray Hanson ???
vatusay
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People, no need to drop anything. Winning fixes everything. TVA set the football program back tremendously with the treatment of Patterson and then kind of just anointing Hendrickson as HC. Nielson and co got the ball rolling. I believe and hope fisher will keep the trajectory upward. People come to see a winning program. You aren't going to pack the stands with a three win a year team that we had got accustomed to for a stretch of time. This football season is big, for all programs, really.
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sealhall74
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Before cutting anything else, I would probably try adding something:

Do what the service academies do and that is make some sort of athletic participation (varsity, club, or intramural) a mandatory requirement for all students. If you build some bonds on the courts and fields while chasing common pursuits, then you are much more likely to go out and show your support for others whenever and wherever it is needed. And would a parent not be more likely to want their child to go to school which has a mandatory program in place to fight off that "Freshman 15"?
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WIU0812
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brewer2125 wrote:All good points, certainly.

As to the marching band issue, that is a point (and in that regard kudos to the late Dale Hopper, from my era at WIU, which is 1982-1986). Not having been in a marching band, I can't speak to whether any (or many) students that go to Western go there specifically for marching band, or is it a factor that tips the scale, or is not a factor but becomes something the student gets involved with because they are talented in music and want to get involved in some way once they get to WIU. I suspect that for the majority of student musicians, unless there is scholarship money involved, it is more likely to be a bonus rather than the principal factor. But yes, I am speculating on that point.

Athletic training students have many other sports to work with to achieve their academic and "lab" requirements. Those that desire football specific training can still probably accomplish their goal by working with local high school and JC teams (as WIU does coordinate with the local communities in several other respects). Again, I wonder how many athletic training students would go to Eastern, Southern, Northern, solely because WIU would not have a football team.

Not sure how many students pick a school because their local HS football player went there (unless it is the player's girlfriend). Guessing that number is likely to be very low, if not zero.

I am not sure how the urban/rural distinction would make any difference after the program is dropped. All schools have to travel to some degree for their schedules. In that regard, urban schools would actually have it easier justifying having a team because they would be closer to airports most of the time. I can see that the urban/rural distinction could be an issue moreso for the urban school in deciding whether or not to continue having a team because an urban school might be faced with having to shell out the dollars for likely more expensive real estate to maintain or expand a football program.

My point ultimately is not any different than what several commentators and analysts have already concluded, which is that football programs at most colleges and universities are a financial drain, and the size of that deficit dwarfs what most other school teams require for their budgets. I think it would be preferable to try to keep as many different programs alive, rather than maintaining a cash guzzling football program and offering few other sports, especially where the cost of maintaining the football team requires the elimination of a womens' team. That is, if I recall correctly, the exact reason why we have Title IX in the first place - which is to afford women TRULY equal resources and opportunities in collegiate sports. Title IX is not satisfied, in my opinion, by spending millions of dollars on one football team, then taking the same amount of money and sprinkling it over multiple womens' programs, and then saying all these other teams' athlete are being afforded an "equal" opportunity.

With that mindset, if there is any cutting to be made, then there should be a genuine attempt to keep the opportunities TRULY equal - which can be easily accomplished without football (as there is no equivalent on the womens' side). For example, mens golf requires the same resources as womens golf. Same with tennis, Same with track and field. Same with basketball. Same with swimming and diving. Same with baseball and softball. The same with shooting sports (which I understand some WIU alumni are lobbying to add at WIU). The same with gymnastics. The same with bowling. The same with ice hockey. Etc. Etc. So, to me, unless football is turning a profit, which I can guarantee WIU's football team is not in that tiny market with no TV revenue, it should be the first target of any AD budget cuts because cutting that program does not require the cutting of anything else - and because without football, the other programs compliment each other - precisely as Title IX requires.
Didn't they cut men's tennis not women's tennis? And don't forget volleyball which I know the two do not equal up to the football squad size, but there has to be approx 20 - 25 students between women's tennis and volleyball which are now only women's sports with no men's equivalent after the cut.

It is hard to truly argue cutting football since it is the most popular sport at the school and in the country. Even if they only bring an average of 4,000 people into the stadium how many countless people come to tailgate and spend money in the city or at the school. If you have been to a tailgate I would guess that if 4,000 people are in the stadium 4,000 people are still in the parking lot to. The team brings more financial value than what you see as ticket sales in game. Plus, the $350,000 or whatever it was they get to play against a FBS team ends up cutting out a chunk of their expenses and that was the least amount they have made in last few years off FBS games since there was only 1 game. I would think between ticket sales, food revenue and general economic benefit combined with their money games the football team is by far the most beneficial for the school. Also, I do not know what they make on gameday sponsorships from company's on video board and around the stadium, but I am sure it is something. They may not make any money, but I am guessing they closer than you think to the same net loss as some of the other sports. Also, I am not really sure homecoming would be a big deal if the biggest game of the day was a tennis match which the town itself see's homecoming as a huge economic stimulus day.

Respect for trying to back up the tennis teams and other teams though. It is unfortunate the conversation even has to take place.
brewer2125
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I heard that men's tennis was cut, then checked the webpage and they are touting that the men's team has a new recruit coming in for next year. So I am not sure.

Numerous studies (including NCAA and Forbes) have proven that unless your football team is an elite program (i.e. top 25 Division I), your football program is losing money and drains school resources. Based on WIU's 2015 budget, football coaching salaries alone exceed $700,000. If every one of those 4,000 fans holds a season ticket (the highest potential revenue source for the school for a football game), that generates just $320,000 in total revenue (and you know that not everyone in that stadium is a season ticket holder, so total gate receipts are likely less than that). So before you play one football game, before one penny is spent on travel, meals, league fees, equipment, insurance, etc., the program is roughly $400,000 in the red, which by the way is about the same amount as the TOTAL OF ALL salaries of the coaches of the womens' teams, (that number, including all paid assistant coaches, is less than $420,000). So, based on these numbers, it's clear that there is ZERO chance the football program even remotely comes close to breaking even, or even losing just a little money. ZERO.

Football is the most popular sport? So what. To me, that is not enough to justify spending large sums of money, especially when (1) the program has an abysmal record over the past decade and (2) you are so budget crunched that you are considering cutting other programs just to save football. Cutting a D1 football program is not a new concept. WIU would be just fine without it.
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Tere North
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brewer2125 wrote:I heard that men's tennis was cut, then checked the webpage and they are touting that the men's team has a new recruit coming in for next year. So I am not sure.
Men's tennis was cut, but they haven't removed it or prior press releases from the Leatherneck website.
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sealhall74
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Tere North wrote:
brewer2125 wrote:I heard that men's tennis was cut, then checked the webpage and they are touting that the men's team has a new recruit coming in for next year. So I am not sure.
Men's tennis was cut, but they haven't removed it or prior press releases from the Leatherneck website.
And the current players are sort of like Coach P. Gotta keep paying them for a while after their service is no longer needed. ;)
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sealhall74 wrote:
Tere North wrote:
brewer2125 wrote:I heard that men's tennis was cut, then checked the webpage and they are touting that the men's team has a new recruit coming in for next year. So I am not sure.
Men's tennis was cut, but they haven't removed it or prior press releases from the Leatherneck website.
And the current players are sort of like Coach P. Gotta keep paying them for a while after their service is no longer needed. ;)
I think they can choose to stay at Western and just not play and their scholarship will be honored, or they can transfer to another school (NCAA transfer rules have exemptions for programs that were cut...can transfer to another school of same division without having to sit a year, I think) that will offer an athletic scholarship to play.
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brewer2125
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I wonder about a player that recived an offer and commits to WIU, tells other schools "no thank you" and they go sign another player, and then WIU cuts its program. Would WIU honor its commitment to that student, even though they haven't enrolled yet? I doubt it. Hopefully that hasn't happened, for the athlete's sake.
vatusay
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Have heard players that received scholarship before program was cut will still receive it.

No one cares about tennis, swimming, volleyball, crops country, any of those sports. Sorry it's the truth. Coaches, players, and parents that's it.
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