State of the Program- Post Week 7 Edition

[sealhall74]

Me, either - although I will admit to watching Baron Von Rasche and Mad Dog Vachon in my younger days.

 

Me too.  Verne Gagne live from the Wharton Field House in Moline on Saturday nights.  That dates me for sure.

[wiu712]

 Me too.  Verne Gagne live from the Wharton Field House in Moline on Saturday nights.  That dates me for sure.

That brings back memories of the early days of WQAD-TV, channel 8 in Moline.  The featured "All Star Wrestling" on Saturday nights.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[dogwhisper]

Lets talk turkey here, the facilities do not attract the better athletes. If they are d1 caliber chances are they have visited other schools. We do not stack up against the others. So the players that commit are the players getting naia or d2 offers. Or are cast offs from other schools. Once they’re here and experience the shit show coaching they scratch their heads and start looking for a way out! The d coordinator shouldn’t be coaching here, he just has no idea how to scheme up a defense. And Myers, albeit a nice guy has a soft and meek way about him. Not what you need as a D1 football coach. The assistant coaches that are worth they’re weight realize that they are on a sinking ship and jump off at any opportunity as soon as they can. Another thought, has anyone wondered why coach H didnt bring 1 assistant with him from his previous job? Makes you go hmmmm. 



 

I dont have the numbers to support it, but my gut tells me that coaches in small town D3 or NAIA programs, especially religous-affiliated ones, like it where they are and dont move around too much.  But I agree with you.  For years in all programs, it seems we are not getting the real D1 athletic types here (explosiveness and quickness).
 

 

Or nobody wanted to work for him, ding ding
 

[rocki]

Lets talk turkey here, the facilities do not attract the better athletes. If they are d1 caliber chances are they have visited other schools. We do not stack up against the others. So the players that commit are the players getting naia or d2 offers. Or are cast offs from other schools. Once they’re here and experience the shit show coaching they scratch their heads and start looking for a way out! The d coordinator shouldn’t be coaching here, he just has no idea how to scheme up a defense. And Myers, albeit a nice guy has a soft and meek way about him. Not what you need as a D1 football coach. The assistant coaches that are worth they’re weight realize that they are on a sinking ship and jump off at any opportunity as soon as they can. Another thought, has anyone wondered why coach H didnt bring 1 assistant with him from his previous job? Makes you go hmmmm. 

 

Now to really get down to brass tacks, what is your solution?

[QLotVeteran]

Lets talk turkey here, the facilities do not attract the better athletes. If they are d1 caliber chances are they have visited other schools. We do not stack up against the others. So the players that commit are the players getting naia or d2 offers. Or are cast offs from other schools. Once they’re here and experience the shit show coaching they scratch their heads and start looking for a way out! The d coordinator shouldn’t be coaching here, he just has no idea how to scheme up a defense. And Myers, albeit a nice guy has a soft and meek way about him. Not what you need as a D1 football coach. The assistant coaches that are worth they’re weight realize that they are on a sinking ship and jump off at any opportunity as soon as they can. Another thought, has anyone wondered why coach H didnt bring 1 assistant with him from his previous job? Makes you go hmmmm. 


 

Now to really get down to brass tacks, what is your solution?

 

1) Move to the OVC.
2) Increase Coaches salaries to entice better candidates.  You get what you pay for. 
3) Schedule Non Conf games advantageously.  FBS money games or Pioneer League teams until the program is back on it's feet. 
4) Announce new stadium/facilities plans and fundraise.  Football should be seen as an investment, not as an expense.  
5) Set realistic goals and hold people accountable.  
  

[ST_Lawson]

1) Move to the OVC.
2) Increase Coaches salaries to entice better candidates.  You get what you pay for. 
3) Schedule Non Conf games advantageously.  FBS money games or Pioneer League teams until the program is back on it's feet. 
4) Announce new stadium/facilities plans and fundraise.  Football should be seen as an investment, not as an expense.  
5) Set realistic goals and hold people accountable.  
 
 

Moving to the OVC should save us a bit of money that can be reinvested back into the program, but realistically, most of those involve bringing in quite a bit more money.

Scheduling - I think the reason we haven't scheduled a Pioneer League team since 2014 is because we'd have to pay them to come play here. H&H series are pretty cheap...I think you just pay for your travel expenses to get there on the away game, and obviously FBS games pay us a few hundred thousand. Playing a Pioneer League team costs somewhere in the realm of $50k to bring them in for an "easy win" and honestly I'm not sure if most of the Pioneer would be classified as an "easy win" right now. I wonder if an area DII is any cheaper...someone get McKendree on the phone.

I don't think the university has any extra money to put towards athletics, considering they're looking for ways to cut programs to save whatever they can.
So, it would fall on alumni and fans to donate money...and I'd bet not many of them are all that excited about supporting a program on a record loosing streak.

I agree that all the things you listed would help, but outside of maybe #5 (and we're already doing #1), I don't see the rest as being all that feasible currrently.

[sealhall74]

1) Move to the OVC.
2) Increase Coaches salaries to entice better candidates.  You get what you pay for. 
3) Schedule Non Conf games advantageously.  FBS money games or Pioneer League teams until the program is back on it's feet. 
4) Announce new stadium/facilities plans and fundraise.  Football should be seen as an investment, not as an expense.  
5) Set realistic goals and hold people accountable.  
 

 

Moving to the OVC should save us a bit of money that can be reinvested back into the program, but realistically, most of those involve bringing in quite a bit more money.

Scheduling - I think the reason we haven't scheduled a Pioneer League team since 2014 is because we'd have to pay them to come play here. H&H series are pretty cheap...I think you just pay for your travel expenses to get there on the away game, and obviously FBS games pay us a few hundred thousand. Playing a Pioneer League team costs somewhere in the realm of $50k to bring them in for an "easy win" and honestly I'm not sure if most of the Pioneer would be classified as an "easy win" right now. I wonder if an area DII is any cheaper...someone get McKendree on the phone.

I don't think the university has any extra money to put towards athletics, considering they're looking for ways to cut programs to save whatever they can.
So, it would fall on alumni and fans to donate money...and I'd bet not many of them are all that excited about supporting a program on a record loosing streak.

I agree that all the things you listed would help, but outside of maybe #5 (and we're already doing #1), I don't see the rest as being all that feasible currrently.

 

I think we are damn near at the point in life where we need to ask the serious question:  Would Gonzaga basketball be as successful today had they NOT abandoned their football program during WWII and never resumed it?
 

[ST_Lawson]

I think we are damn near at the point in life where we need to ask the serious question:  Would Gonzaga basketball be as successful today had they NOT abandoned their football program during WWII and never resumed it?
 

That's hard to say, but here's some data on public schools that have dropped football and how many NCAA tournament appearances they have:

Nebraska-Omaha (dropped football in 2010 during move to DI) - 0 NCAA appearances (11 eligible seasons)
UMass-Lowell (2002) - 0 NCAA appearances (10 eligible seasons)
Cal State Northridge (2001) - 2 NCAA appearances (2001 and 2009), 2 after dropping football
Cal State Fullerton (1992) - 4 NCAA appearances (1978, 2008, 2018, 2022), 3 after dropping football
Cal State Long Beach (1991) - 9 NCAA appearances (1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1993, 1995, 2007, 2012), 4 after dropping football
UC Santa Barbara (1991) - 7 NCAA appearances (1988, 1990, 2002, 2010, 2011, 2021, 2023), 5 after dropping football
Wichita State (1986) - 16 NCAA appearances, 11 after dropping football
UT Arlington (1985) - 1 NCAA appearance (2008), 1 after dropping football
Maryland Eastern Shore (1979) - 0 NCAA appearances (43 eligible seasons)
UC Riverside (1975) - 0 NCAA appearances (22 eligible seasons)
Vermont (1974) - 9 NCAA appearances, 9 after dropping football
UW-Milwaukee (1974) - 4 NCAA appearances (2003, 2005, 2006, 2014), 4 after dropping football
UI-Chicago (1973) - 3 NCAA appearances (1998, 2002, 2004), 3 after dropping football

So, I'd say overall the results are mixed. Schools like Wichita State, Vermont, and UC Santa Barbara have had pretty decent success since dropping football. However, schools like Maryland Eastern Shore, UC Riverside, and UT Arlington have a grand total of 1 appearance and all dropped football over 35 years ago. The schools are across a range of enrollments, with the UC schools, UT Arlington, and Wichita State all having fairly high enrollment, but Vermont and Maryland Eastern Shore being much closer to us. Vermont is the "flagship school" for the state, but most of the others are more "regional" universities.

I think a big part of the question of our success would be, if we were to drop football, are we more likely to roll a lot of that money into the basketball program, or just cut that money and not spend it on athletics at all?
If we go with the first, then I think we could see some success. If we drop football and don't use any of that to invest in the basketball program, then I don't think we're likely to get much better than we have been.

We spend roughly $1.4 million for our basketball team and $3.1 million for our football team. If we cut football, and put half of what we spend there towards men's basketball, we're spending about $3 million for men's basketball which puts us in the range of the MVC, for the most part (about even with Missouri State, higher than Indiana State, Murray State, SIUC, or UIC, but lower than Illinois State, Northern Iowa, or Bradley).

I don't really know the answer to all this. I don't want to see us cut football, but we obviously have not had a great deal of success over the last few years.

[Necks2003]

Easier than said done....but winning generally makes things better.

[sealhall74]

I think we are damn near at the point in life where we need to ask the serious question:  Would Gonzaga basketball be as successful today had they NOT abandoned their football program during WWII and never resumed it?

 

That's hard to say, but here's some data on public schools that have dropped football and how many NCAA tournament appearances they have:

Nebraska-Omaha (dropped football in 2010 during move to DI) - 0 NCAA appearances (11 eligible seasons)
UMass-Lowell (2002) - 0 NCAA appearances (10 eligible seasons)
Cal State Northridge (2001) - 2 NCAA appearances (2001 and 2009), 2 after dropping football
Cal State Fullerton (1992) - 4 NCAA appearances (1978, 2008, 2018, 2022), 3 after dropping football
Cal State Long Beach (1991) - 9 NCAA appearances (1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1993, 1995, 2007, 2012), 4 after dropping football
UC Santa Barbara (1991) - 7 NCAA appearances (1988, 1990, 2002, 2010, 2011, 2021, 2023), 5 after dropping football
Wichita State (1986) - 16 NCAA appearances, 11 after dropping football
UT Arlington (1985) - 1 NCAA appearance (2008), 1 after dropping football
Maryland Eastern Shore (1979) - 0 NCAA appearances (43 eligible seasons)
UC Riverside (1975) - 0 NCAA appearances (22 eligible seasons)
Vermont (1974) - 9 NCAA appearances, 9 after dropping football
UW-Milwaukee (1974) - 4 NCAA appearances (2003, 2005, 2006, 2014), 4 after dropping football
UI-Chicago (1973) - 3 NCAA appearances (1998, 2002, 2004), 3 after dropping football

So, I'd say overall the results are mixed. Schools like Wichita State, Vermont, and UC Santa Barbara have had pretty decent success since dropping football. However, schools like Maryland Eastern Shore, UC Riverside, and UT Arlington have a grand total of 1 appearance and all dropped football over 35 years ago. The schools are across a range of enrollments, with the UC schools, UT Arlington, and Wichita State all having fairly high enrollment, but Vermont and Maryland Eastern Shore being much closer to us. Vermont is the "flagship school" for the state, but most of the others are more "regional" universities.

I think a big part of the question of our success would be, if we were to drop football, are we more likely to roll a lot of that money into the basketball program, or just cut that money and not spend it on athletics at all?
If we go with the first, then I think we could see some success. If we drop football and don't use any of that to invest in the basketball program, then I don't think we're likely to get much better than we have been.

We spend roughly $1.4 million for our basketball team and $3.1 million for our football team. If we cut football, and put half of what we spend there towards men's basketball, we're spending about $3 million for men's basketball which puts us in the range of the MVC, for the most part (about even with Missouri State, higher than Indiana State, Murray State, SIUC, or UIC, but lower than Illinois State, Northern Iowa, or Bradley).

I don't really know the answer to all this. I don't want to see us cut football, but we obviously have not had a great deal of success over the last few years.

 

Two teams that were near to my heart a few years ago are VCU and GMU.  Both have only had club football in their existence although there is some rumblings at VCU now to start up a varsity football program, I assume NCAA level.  I will go out on a limb and say that both of their miracle runs to the Final Four would never have happened if they had a football program.  They both take basketball very seriously and the pep bands associated with the programs are the best that I have ever witnessed personally.