Fire Coach Elliott

[sealhall74]

I'm just sick of the losing and saddens me that our basketball team getting picked 5th for conference is the best and most hopeful news we've had in a long time at WIU for men's sports.
 

 

The programs really need to feed off each other to be successful.  I.E., a football kid comes in for a visit when a big basketball game in on the schedule, one which draws a nice size and enthusiastic crowd.  It should work that way for hoops recruits as well.  When you win that big game on the gridiron and the crowd storms the field like in Iowa City last weekend, even better.  The kid probably commits the next day like that 6-10 Junior from across the river.  I think the Bison and Jacks do enjoy this kind of recruiting advantage right now as well.  Can we compete with them in the MVFC and Summit?  Not even.  Hope I am proven wrong this weekend.  
 

https://qctimes.com/sports/college/bask ... 2121f.html

 

[letsgonecks]

If we do in fact move on from Elliott, we need to be looking for Nick Hill 2.0.  Would love a coach with D1 HC experience or an up and coming FBS coordinator or position coach, but not likely with our lack of funds, unless they want a shot at being an HC.

Someone with D1 playing playing experience from a winning program and under a winning coach.  Everyone loves a former QB as they need the deepest knowledge of the offense and in turn what a defense can bring.  Successful Qb's possess quick decision making skills and are typically leaders.  Hill was a great player who won and played under Jerry Kill.

Someone hired under a winning program and a winning coach.  Hill coached under Dale Lennon. Though Lennon went 9-14 those 2 years, he was 51-42 overall and 36-28 in the Valley (I'd take 9-14 the last 2 years at WIU).  Granted, Lennon probably had some early win help from what Kill left, but Lennon was 90-24 at then D2 and current MVFC North Dakota.  

I know Elliott is close to that mold as a one time QB, turned part time WR at Miami OH, but lacks the winning coaching background leadership.  His HC at M-OH struggled after his first year and lost his job by the time Elliott's playing career was up.  First coaching job at D2 Missouri Southern State was 3-7 and that HC was fired.  Then under new HC in M-OH as a GA and they went 1-11, but did rebound to 10-4.  First stop at WIU under Hendrickson going 3-8, followed by 3 bad seasons at D3 Carthage, who's 5-5 record his last year was their best.  He did pickup some winning under Fisher for 2 years, but lets be honest Fisher won with Bob's players.  I liked Fisher way more than Bob, but those were his players.

I like Elliot and believe the players do, but time to move on.  Lets find a current FCS coordinator or position coach with a Nick Hill winning background and make it happen.  I'd start looking at Valley Schools and SDSU might be a good place to start.
 

[sealhall74]

If we do in fact move on from Elliott, we need to be looking for Nick Hill 2.0.  Would love a coach with D1 HC experience or an up and coming FBS coordinator or position coach, but not likely with our lack of funds, unless they want a shot at being an HC.

Someone with D1 playing playing experience from a winning program and under a winning coach.  Everyone loves a former QB as they need the deepest knowledge of the offense and in turn what a defense can bring.  Successful Qb's possess quick decision making skills and are typically leaders.  Hill was a great player who won and played under Jerry Kill.

Someone hired under a winning program and a winning coach.  Hill coached under Dale Lennon. Though Lennon went 9-14 those 2 years, he was 51-42 overall and 36-28 in the Valley (I'd take 9-14 the last 2 years at WIU).  Granted, Lennon probably had some early win help from what Kill left, but Lennon was 90-24 at then D2 and current MVFC North Dakota.  

I know Elliott is close to that mold as a one time QB, turned part time WR at Miami OH, but lacks the winning coaching background leadership.  His HC at M-OH struggled after his first year and lost his job by the time Elliott's playing career was up.  First coaching job at D2 Missouri Southern State was 3-7 and that HC was fired.  Then under new HC in M-OH as a GA and they went 1-11, but did rebound to 10-4.  First stop at WIU under Hendrickson going 3-8, followed by 3 bad seasons at D3 Carthage, who's 5-5 record his last year was their best.  He did pickup some winning under Fisher for 2 years, but lets be honest Fisher won with Bob's players.  I liked Fisher way more than Bob, but those were his players.

I like Elliot and believe the players do, but time to move on.  Lets find a current FCS coordinator or position coach with a Nick Hill winning background and make it happen.  I'd start looking at Valley Schools and SDSU might be a good place to start.
 

 

Nick Hill's only coaching job before arriving at SIU was a 1 year stint at HS level.  I need to talk to Mr. Lafferty.  Been about 40 years since I have talked to him.  Played a lot of tennis with him - no greater competitor on this planet.  Back in 2018, he was on the coaching clinic agenda held at WIU.  Would have loved to been there to hear him.  Hell, he could establish a legacy if he brings sons Michael and Brian (WIU grad i think) along for the ride with him.  I know Danielle knows a lot about him, living in Carthage and would know if he is a good fit and has any interest.

http://www.wiu.edu/news/newsrelease.php ... e_id=15578

[ST_Lawson]

I realize that Coach Lafferty is pretty much a legend in Illinois HS football, especially in our region, but I have a really hard time going with a coach who has zero college coaching experience. There's just so many differences between coaching public HS teams and coaching a DI university that I don't think it would be an easy transition. Just FYI, Nick Hill did have recent experience playing college football (2004-2007), a few years in pro leagues (mostly arena football), a year at a local HS, then two years on the offensive staff at SIU before being named HC, so he's got recent familiarity with the collegiate level of football. I'd be worried that Lafferty might struggle with the whole recruiting and scholarships aspects to the game. Lafferty did play in college, but it was at Monmouth and 30+ years ago.

If we're really looking for someone in the mold of Nick Hill (relatively recent football alumni with a bit of coaching experience), then Myers Hendrickson might be the best option, having had success as HC for a couple of years at Kansas Wesleyan (while on a smaller scale than DI, as an NAIA school, they do offer scholarships), a few other places before that, and also growing up watching his dad coach at various places while growing up. Personally, I'd prefer a bit more experience either HC a DII or school or as an assistant at a DI school, but if that's the route you wanted to take, I think he's probably the best option on that front.

I also agree with an earlier comment that it wouldn't be a bad idea to get some input from previous successful head coaches...hopefully someone has the phone numbers (or email addresses) of the two winningest coaches in WIU history...Randy Ball and Don Patterson.

That reminds me of another name to keep an eye on...not for replacing Coach Elliott, but maybe down the road a bit...is Andy Ball (son of Randy Ball). Grew up in Macomb, played at Western, and is working his way around the DII public universities in Missouri, with coaching stops at Central Missouri, Missouri Western, Truman State, and Missouri S&T. I'd like to see him at least get some HC experience at the DII level before handing the reigns of a DI program over to him though.

[letsgonecks]

 

I realize that Coach Lafferty is pretty much a legend in Illinois HS football, especially in our region, but I have a really hard time going with a coach who has zero college coaching experience. There's just so many differences between coaching public HS teams and coaching a DI university that I don't think it would be an easy transition. Just FYI, Nick Hill did have recent experience playing college football (2004-2007), a few years in pro leagues (mostly arena football), a year at a local HS, then two years on the offensive staff at SIU before being named HC, so he's got recent familiarity with the collegiate level of football. I'd be worried that Lafferty might struggle with the whole recruiting and scholarships aspects to the game. Lafferty did play in college, but it was at Monmouth and 30+ years ago.

If we're really looking for someone in the mold of Nick Hill (relatively recent football alumni with a bit of coaching experience), then Myers Hendrickson might be the best option, having had success as HC for a couple of years at Kansas Wesleyan (while on a smaller scale than DI, as an NAIA school, they do offer scholarships), a few other places before that, and also growing up watching his dad coach at various places while growing up. Personally, I'd prefer a bit more experience either HC a DII or school or as an assistant at a DI school, but if that's the route you wanted to take, I think he's probably the best option on that front.

I also agree with an earlier comment that it wouldn't be a bad idea to get some input from previous successful head coaches...hopefully someone has the phone numbers (or email addresses) of the two winningest coaches in WIU history...Randy Ball and Don Patterson.

That reminds me of another name to keep an eye on...not for replacing Coach Elliott, but maybe down the road a bit...is Andy Ball (son of Randy Ball). Grew up in Macomb, played at Western, and is working his way around the DII public universities in Missouri, with coaching stops at Central Missouri, Missouri Western, Truman State, and Missouri S&T. I'd like to see him at least get some HC experience at the DII level before handing the reigns of a DI program over to him though.

 

Shit, if Andy can land major D1 transfers like his dad, we'll back on top in no time.  I love when coaches builds a program from recruiting, but Ball won with transfers and I wouldn't mind that. We were basically Big 10-AA.
 

[rocki]

 

I realize that Coach Lafferty is pretty much a legend in Illinois HS football, especially in our region, but I have a really hard time going with a coach who has zero college coaching experience. There's just so many differences between coaching public HS teams and coaching a DI university that I don't think it would be an easy transition. Just FYI, Nick Hill did have recent experience playing college football (2004-2007), a few years in pro leagues (mostly arena football), a year at a local HS, then two years on the offensive staff at SIU before being named HC, so he's got recent familiarity with the collegiate level of football. I'd be worried that Lafferty might struggle with the whole recruiting and scholarships aspects to the game. Lafferty did play in college, but it was at Monmouth and 30+ years ago.

If we're really looking for someone in the mold of Nick Hill (relatively recent football alumni with a bit of coaching experience), then Myers Hendrickson might be the best option, having had success as HC for a couple of years at Kansas Wesleyan (while on a smaller scale than DI, as an NAIA school, they do offer scholarships), a few other places before that, and also growing up watching his dad coach at various places while growing up. Personally, I'd prefer a bit more experience either HC a DII or school or as an assistant at a DI school, but if that's the route you wanted to take, I think he's probably the best option on that front.

I also agree with an earlier comment that it wouldn't be a bad idea to get some input from previous successful head coaches...hopefully someone has the phone numbers (or email addresses) of the two winningest coaches in WIU history...Randy Ball and Don Patterson.

That reminds me of another name to keep an eye on...not for replacing Coach Elliott, but maybe down the road a bit...is Andy Ball (son of Randy Ball). Grew up in Macomb, played at Western, and is working his way around the DII public universities in Missouri, with coaching stops at Central Missouri, Missouri Western, Truman State, and Missouri S&T. I'd like to see him at least get some HC experience at the DII level before handing the reigns of a DI program over to him though.


 

Shit, if Andy can land major D1 transfers like his dad, we'll back on top in no time.  I love when coaches builds a program from recruiting, but Ball won with transfers and I wouldn't mind that. We were basically Big 10-AA.
 

 

What they said ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Western_101]

I thought i heard his contract was up at the end of the spring season and we gave him another which makes sense because of the short turnaround but I could be completely wrong.



 

Usually a new HC will get a 3-year contract, which would be in-line with what you're saying. I have not seen any confirmation of that, but that is likely to be accurate. If it's 3 years based on calendar years, it would have been up January 2021, but if it was 3 "seasons" then it would have been up in late spring. Either way, I think it's likely he's on a year-to-year extension currently.

So, considering we may be on the lookout for a new HC when this season is over, assuming no crazy turnarounds over the last month and a half of the regular season, I'm personally not a fan of bringing in someone who doesn't have coaching experience at least at the DII level. A DII HC, a DI coordinator...something like that. I'm not great at looking at who might be available at the DI level, but in DII, here's a few options:

Rich Wright (HC at DII NW Missouri State) - 36-8 in 4th year at NWMSU, 3 DII playoff appearances. Based on his graduation year is probably in his late 40's, but got his Masters at NWMSU and his wife is an alum, so he might be reluctant to leave.
https://bearcatsports.com/sports/footba ... right/1660

Matt Mitchell (HC at DII Grand Valley State) - 100-28 in his (currently) 11th year at GVSU, made DII playoffs 5 times. Played in college at Cornell College (Iowa) and started his coaching career at Wartburg (Iowa). Likely in his mid-40's.
https://gvsulakers.com/sports/football/ ... chell/1562

Curt Wiese (HC at UM-Duluth) - yes, I realize our track record with HC's from UM-Duluth isn't great, but he's still a great coach. In his 8th year at UMD, he's 76-15 so far with 4 DII playoff appearances. He played at MN State-Mankato and Wisconsin-Eau Claire and is likely in his mid-40's.
https://umdbulldogs.com/sports/football ... -wiese/774

And here's just a couple of names to peruse from the FBS level:

Ryan Grubb (OC at Fresno State) - Fresno State has had one of the best offenses in the Mountain West over the last few years. Originally from Kingsley, IA, played at Buena Vista University (IA), got his masters at South Dakota State, where he was a RB and WR coach for 2 years. Was O-line coach at Eastern Michigan, and has been in various offensive positions at Fresno State since 2017.
https://gobulldogs.com/sports/football/ ... grubb/2240

And the name that often pops up, although he's probably not all that interested...Jeff Hecklinski (OC at San Diego State), WIU alumni (1997), from Palatine originally, and has coaching experience at a number of schools including Ball State, San Diego State (twice), Michigan, CSU-Pueblo, Illinois, Indiana State, and Kansas.
https://goaztecs.com/sports/football/ro ... linski/743


 

Good post.

I might interject that those successful D-II schools you have listed all have MUCH better facilities than Western. I think a few years back Bob was able to show some recruits some spiffy architectural renderings of (essentially) a brand new beautiful stadium, so you can pull that stunt only so long before potential recruits become wise to the ruse and realize that the dump they see on day one is not changing (I guess continuing to crumble and disintegrate like my own aging body technically is change).
   
 
 

[rocki]

"I might interject that those successful D-II schools you have listed all have MUCH better facilities than Western. I think a few years back Bob was able to show some recruits some spiffy architectural renderings of (essentially) a brand new beautiful stadium, so you can pull that stunt only so long before potential recruits become wise to the ruse and realize that the dump they see on day one is not changing (I guess continuing to crumble and disintegrate like my own aging body technically is change).  "


But in that vein, I think we are back to the chicken or the egg question. Can we get a fundraising effort going to upgrade Hanson Field to appeal to potential recruits, or do we need to have a big improvement in the program to have people invest?

[sealhall74]

"I might interject that those successful D-II schools you have listed all have MUCH better facilities than Western. I think a few years back Bob was able to show some recruits some spiffy architectural renderings of (essentially) a brand new beautiful stadium, so you can pull that stunt only so long before potential recruits become wise to the ruse and realize that the dump they see on day one is not changing (I guess continuing to crumble and disintegrate like my own aging body technically is change).  "


But in that vein, I think we are back to the chicken or the egg question. Can we get a fundraising effort going to upgrade Hanson Field to appeal to potential recruits, or do we need to have a big improvement in the program to have people invest?

 

Unless someone wins the lottery, the vast majority of funding will need to come from tax and bond revenue.  Lot of people who went to WIU and even sent their kids to WIU follow the flagship program now.  That aint changing any time soon.

[ST_Lawson]

I thought i heard his contract was up at the end of the spring season and we gave him another which makes sense because of the short turnaround but I could be completely wrong.



 

Usually a new HC will get a 3-year contract, which would be in-line with what you're saying. I have not seen any confirmation of that, but that is likely to be accurate. If it's 3 years based on calendar years, it would have been up January 2021, but if it was 3 "seasons" then it would have been up in late spring. Either way, I think it's likely he's on a year-to-year extension currently.

So, considering we may be on the lookout for a new HC when this season is over, assuming no crazy turnarounds over the last month and a half of the regular season, I'm personally not a fan of bringing in someone who doesn't have coaching experience at least at the DII level. A DII HC, a DI coordinator...something like that. I'm not great at looking at who might be available at the DI level, but in DII, here's a few options:

Rich Wright (HC at DII NW Missouri State) - 36-8 in 4th year at NWMSU, 3 DII playoff appearances. Based on his graduation year is probably in his late 40's, but got his Masters at NWMSU and his wife is an alum, so he might be reluctant to leave.
https://bearcatsports.com/sports/footba ... right/1660

Matt Mitchell (HC at DII Grand Valley State) - 100-28 in his (currently) 11th year at GVSU, made DII playoffs 5 times. Played in college at Cornell College (Iowa) and started his coaching career at Wartburg (Iowa). Likely in his mid-40's.
https://gvsulakers.com/sports/football/ ... chell/1562

Curt Wiese (HC at UM-Duluth) - yes, I realize our track record with HC's from UM-Duluth isn't great, but he's still a great coach. In his 8th year at UMD, he's 76-15 so far with 4 DII playoff appearances. He played at MN State-Mankato and Wisconsin-Eau Claire and is likely in his mid-40's.
https://umdbulldogs.com/sports/football ... -wiese/774

And here's just a couple of names to peruse from the FBS level:

Ryan Grubb (OC at Fresno State) - Fresno State has had one of the best offenses in the Mountain West over the last few years. Originally from Kingsley, IA, played at Buena Vista University (IA), got his masters at South Dakota State, where he was a RB and WR coach for 2 years. Was O-line coach at Eastern Michigan, and has been in various offensive positions at Fresno State since 2017.
https://gobulldogs.com/sports/football/ ... grubb/2240

And the name that often pops up, although he's probably not all that interested...Jeff Hecklinski (OC at San Diego State), WIU alumni (1997), from Palatine originally, and has coaching experience at a number of schools including Ball State, San Diego State (twice), Michigan, CSU-Pueblo, Illinois, Indiana State, and Kansas.
https://goaztecs.com/sports/football/ro ... linski/743


 

Good post.

I might interject that those successful D-II schools you have listed all have MUCH better facilities than Western. I think a few years back Bob was able to show some recruits some spiffy architectural renderings of (essentially) a brand new beautiful stadium, so you can pull that stunt only so long before potential recruits become wise to the ruse and realize that the dump they see on day one is not changing (I guess continuing to crumble and disintegrate like my own aging body technically is change).
   
 
 

I agree that it’s going to be tough to recruit with the facilities that we currently have. I think we just have to hope that there’s a good coach who’s interested in a challenge or is a big fan of the area/region.


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